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Make sure the stock can support the position size you wish to trade. Failing to do so could result in further slippage. I am curious if you have a recommendation on one or two stocks for day trading without changing the stock every week? If you monitor the list each week you will notice it changes very little. The stocks generally stay the same and the stats are just updated.
They move well most of the time. Therefore,as recommended in the article, pick one and stick with it. Look at a 1-minute chart of each or whatever you use and see which one suits your strategies best. All are acceptable…once you pick one there is no reason to look at anything else unless the conditions in the stock you are trading dramatically deteriorate. Shaping my trading skills after yours, i can say that i became mainly a trend trader, and trends are where my skills really shines.
I followed your stock picks for a while, and examining charts of the stocks that you provide i can see that they move FAR better than an average day on EURUSD or should i say, i see more reliable opportunities on average, since Forex trends are usually far more choppier than stock trends, for what i see.
I see that hotkeys are widely used by stock day traders for rapid execution, which is something i never had to worry about trading Forex.
Do you have a solution for being able to look at some reliable charts without having to deposit with a broker just yet? If not, i guess i will have to open a small account with a Bahamas broker and practice trading with very low share size. And again, how do you choose the one stock that you will trade for the week from the list that you publish?
Do you look at recent sessions and see which one moved the better on average, and trade it all week? I will definitely play around with the scanners to see if i can find stocks that i like by myself, in the meantime i will keep following your picks.
And thanks for publishing your picks every week, i can see how valuable this is for stock traders! There are big volume stocks that move cleanly, though. It is just a matter of finding them. Most of the stocks on the list, with big volume, are there because they have nice enough movement to trade.
Nothing is ever easy in trading, but there are stocks that are easier. I liked the smaller caps for a long time. I still do trade them occasionally, but if I can get a clean mover with lots of volume, that is even better. As for brokers and practicing, Patrick posted this in a comment elsewhere. This will give you enough to start practicing…you can use a simulation account within your live account. The downside to ToS is although it is very robust, it has a steep learning curve and a bit of a resource hog.
I would agree that given the wide range of stocks out there, it is typically easier to find something that suits your eye. The down side is that it can overwhelming deciding which stock to trade. Narrow it to one, and trade if for the week. I have been trading the same stock for the last 4 months, everyday. Each wave may only be 5 or 6 cents. You for sure have to give the stock at least a 3 or 4 cent stop, and then you try to make 6 or 8 you are trying to capture a huge portion of the daily range.
It is much easier to pop in and out for 10 or 20 cents gains, while only risking , or whatever. Yes, the stock I trade is just one that suits my eye. If the movements become harder to trade, I find something else.
No stock is perfect. I still have lots of losing trades and the odd losing day, but for the most part me and the stock have to get along. I tried stocks in play, then I went to trying to trade of these stocks at a time 6 charts on my screen, trying to get every move in each one , narrowing it down to 3 or 4 that I traded better, narrowing again down to 2 and here I am, down to one stock that I trade well. It took me months to figure this out — checking previous trading results, trying to find consistency and pulling out some hair in the process.
The whole time Cory has said over and over, just pick one. So, how many more months is it going to take for me to know what I already know? It becomes a bit easier after you see consistent results from doing the same thing over and over again. Most days are pretty uneventful but still fun and you make some money. Most days are like this. Then one day, that stock has crazy moves and you have a massively profitable day.
Then the next day you go back to making your normal profit. Maybe several months or a year later you have another massive day. You do well most of the time, and extremely well a small portion of the time. Once you do something consistently, you get to see that doing something consistently you will actually end up in the right place at the right time every so often. Depending on the size of your account you may have to use a larger percentage of your account to make it worthwhile.
The 25 trading days out is a good time frame out because the time value starts to leak out rapidly even if the underlying moves in your direction. But I would be glad to see your back testing results. I made a mistake this month on placing a trade on CMG right after a earnings report and gap down and for only.
It filled the gap quickly and put me in the hurt. I rolled up and got hurt gain. I placed this trade knowing that there is a likelihood of it filling the gap.
I also paid for a lesson in why you need to get the minimum. With that small of a premium the chance of it hitting your MRA is increased. Bill is right about trading exposing your weaknesses. Also new to options trading and finding conforming trades difficult. Was surprised is this IV or what?? Lee, Base hits and homeruns.
I tend to relate subjects to sports when explaining something. I would compare credit spreads to base hits in baseball. While getting on base is important and essential to winning the game, home runs help too.
Do you have any advice on going for the occasional home run or should I forget about the big-gainers and focus solely on consistent income from writing spreads? I think I know what your answer will be, but I wanted to get your thoughts on the subject. If the plan is a risk-adverse technique to generate a stream of monthly income, trading around earnings reports is — as you certainly expected me to say — absolutely out.
For real home runs, your best bet is probably outright purchase of out-of-the-money calls or puts depending on your directional bias. While we must keep those in the path of Sandy in our thoughts and prayers, it seems to be that the market being closed for a couple of days gives us sellers of credit spreads a time decay boost withing any risk.
Am I correct in my assessment? Yes, more important things than trading going on right now. But, your statement is correct. Expiration dates have not moved so theta is still working in your favor for OTM credit positions you have in place. However, potential trade set-ups are also being eroded, denying opportunities. Im just starting out with Safertrader and finding that a disproportional amount of commissions are being paid in relation to profits made.
There is not as many brokerages in Canada that offer credit spread abilities and allow them in retirement accts. Yee haw, I am liking what I see. Would be nice if the forum were more active, though I guess everybody has something better to do. Wondering what everyone thinks of November expirations as being disqualified because of the election.
Seems like that carries a lot more weight than a companies earnings…what say you experienced ones who have been through an election year?
I would have guessed that something like that might be a market-moving event. Just curious what anyone thought. I just ran a scan on the entire list and every spread is headed in the right direction. Well, I ran the results from the entire list after the fact as I was not set up and ready to trade yet. The importance of setting and sticking to exit rules for each trade cannot be stressed enough. Without strict adherence to maximum loss rules, this run could have easily wiped out YTD profits or worse.
Discipline when enforcing exit rules will help mitigate the effect of the statistical anomalies that will occur. I found a trade within 10 minutes of opening the spreadsheet. Do you have a rough estimate on when the screener will be up and running. I have observed that on the time I had to do adjustments, unless I roll it to the next month, I will certainly take a loss. My plan is to avoid a loss, and just take a lesser return or even breakeven, so rolling seems to work except if there is a big drop.
My observation also is that if I just do trade adjustments thru rolling to the next month on the last week, this seems to prevent me from taking a loss.
The risk will be if the stock crosses beyond the short leg which and for some reason I can not rollout, then I will really take a big hit. I am wondering why. Is it because RUT have higher open interests? Do you also have same experiences? You are certainly right about the SPX being relatively difficult to get filled. You may want to check out http: It covers a number of the beneifts and drawbacks of each. One of your recent emails mentioned a 2nd Edition of the MIM book.
I think I have the 1st edition. Is there any reason for owners of the first book to read the 2nd Ed? The book has been expanded to include some explanations of items not covered in the 1st Ed such as why we recommend NOT using weekly options for credit spreads, as well as attempts to clarify sections where readers have indicated they still had questions.
We also updated the examples to refer to more recent trades, market-wide headline developments, etc. Bottom line, it is not necessary to read the 2nd Edition if you have already absorbed the material in the first edition. But if enough 1st Ed. I got that part. Now what do i do if market is between breakeven and short?
Also if i am not using stop, how do i exit if market is just above my long, or just below on thursday? Does anyone have experience with Fibonacci Retracements?
I think the use of these with credit spreads could be very powerful. Any tips or recommendations on good books or websites would be very appreciated. I am worried about flash crash, big drop in price with big jump in volatility especially with the current market volatility. Is there a good way to protect our iron condors against these?
I would buy the same expiration as IC and it will not cost you so much for the near term. Do experiment and do some volatility simulation tests to validate the effectiveness of this method. For that reason, I personally tend to favor bear call spreads if I am choosing from among similar trade candidates.
The risk is greatest — by far — with an individual stock where a disasterous stock-specific event can hit the newswires. However, a one-day drop of that magnitude is very, very unlikely for a major index.
If one is really overwhelmingly concerned about such an occurance, he should focus his trades on indices, and do so on the short side. Also keep in mind that SaferTraders are exhorted to always have an MRA maximum risk amount in force on every trade, backed up by an actual stop order in the market. While this will not guarantee that you will be filled at your stated stop price if the market takes a sudden swoon, it will assure that you are at least taken out of the market.
Also, as mentioned by another FORUM user, one can use an unbalanced bull put spread when he wants to use a bull spread — one that has extra long options compared to the number of short options in the spread.
I have been checking for stocks or indexes that meet the requirements this week with no luck. Does the earnings season mess up the premiums? This is my first month and would appreciate any clues on a stock or index. Hi Pat, one of the entry requirements that Lee has in his book is that you do not want to trade stock options during announcement or earnings months due to the chances of a large move.
So, patience is a virture! You might look a little further in time. I have been paper trading this system for some time and have been very successful with fake money, my problems began when I started trading with real money imagine that. My first 3 live trades hit my MAR of 2x premium received, forcing me to exit the trade. What makes this so frustrating is that seemingly as soon as my stop loss is triggered the stock turns right back around only to expire worthless.
I am asking for any advice on technical analysis. If anyone can recommend any tips, websites or books to improve my timing and confidence it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. It sounds like to me that maybe your condor is not wide enough. Are you making sure that you are trading in months without announcements, dividends, conference call, etc?
Like I said it is hard to advise when you tell us so little about what you did. Wish I could help more. Hey Mike, it is impossible to help you with your trade with what you have told me. I need to know more about what you traded and your strike prices etc to be able to even begin to know how to help.
Based on what you said the answer would be so general and vague that it would not help you. Also, can anyone give some good advice on what websites will tell you exactly when the next earnings reports will come out. I apologize for my lack of knowledge on the subject, but there are a lot of websites out there that will tell you when the last earnings report was out, but they will not say exactly when the Q2 earnings come out.
I good site for general information is http: At the upper left hand side of the screen type in the ticker symbol of your stock. Another method is to find out when the last earnings was, it will be 3 months later. Every company has its own unique earnings date every 3 months. Lee, from a SafeTrader perspective, how many trade should I have..
Whats is your thought process on diversification? Hi Lee, When I hit the confirm and send key to place a trade with my brokerage firm, it tells me the cost of the trade including commissions. Can you shed some light?
If you are short a stock and the ex-dividend date passes, you are the one responsible for paying whatever dividend had been declared. If you are not following the rules, however, it is possible to end up short the underlying stock obviously, this does not apply to cash-settled options like the RUT and SPX. Long a put that expires. If you are long an American-style stock or ETF put exercisable at any time , and it expires in-the-money, it is automatically exercised. That means you sell the stock at the strike price of your put.
You are now short the stock. If you hold the short stock position after the ex-dividend date, you are responsible for eventual cash payment of any dividend that had been declared.
Long a put that is exercised early. If you are long a put that is in-the-money, and you decide for some reason that you want to exercise it and intentionally be short the stock, rather than just selling the put and taking your profit, you will be liable for paying declared dividend as noted above. If you are short a call that is in-the-money, or close to in-the-money plus a big dividend has been declared, the person who is long that call might decide to exercise it before expiration early exercise if the value of underlying plus the dividend he would be entitled to exceeds the strike price.
If he does do an early exercise, you are then in effect short the stock and will be liable for the dividend as of the ex-dividend date. Lee, Thanks for your quick response to my question about SMA, you are awesome! My question is about other technical indicators. At what point do we risk paralysis by analysis? My question is which indicators should we pay attention to and which indicators should we ignore? Mike, As you note, there are more technical indicators than you can shake a proverbial stick at.
Generally, the shorter the time period of the moving average filter or chart pivot points , the more signals being delivered will turn out to be bogus.
I come down this way: Lee, when we have only 10 days left to trade before expiration, is it ok to go to a higher delta to get the minimum. This assumes the chart is flat or trending in our favor. The orthodox answer is that the current delta value already takes into account the reduced amnount of remaining time.
But I would suggest you not give an inch on whatever MRA you had originally decided upon. In other words, what I need is to be able to determine what will be the approximate stock price that will put my short position with a Delta of This has now come up several times in the past month or so.
Hope to have a detailed article on the specifics of using contingent orders for protective stops out to everyone this weekend. Thanks for the reminder, Felipe! Anxious to read it when posted. So I worry about paying a lot of taxes…. However the spreads are usually wide in these index options compared to the corresponding ETFs. Psychologically, I cannot trade them because of the perceived higher costs. May I have your advise?
Most investment advisors recommend that an investor focus first on profitability and only secondarily on the tax consequences. Pros and Cons of ETF vs. On the other hand, the indices do have the benefit of lower transaction commission costs dollar-for-dollar of total position value, in addition to the potential tax benefit.
It comes down to which issues are more important to you in your situation. Looking forward to closing out April options, thanks to Lee for the coaching. Does anyone have any May positions they are considering? Lee, you mention the sweet spot of option trades to be 10 to 13 days.
Are you refering to calendar days, or trading days. I am in AMZN currently with one week before expiration week. Looking great so far.
I am exactly in the center of the risk graph. I was wondering if anyone has ever traded the same stock or index two months in a row? For example, it looks like AMZN might be a good candidate again. Anybody got any good possibilities on the radar for the April trade?
I agree that we can add our ideas for April and that way it is easy to share ideas and learn. I just joined safertraded community and trying to learn. Ron, I too am new to this type of trading. In the last three months I have traded some of the same stocks consistently and the trades have worked out well. Bidu has been a good Iron condor trade.
IOC has been a good call spread, and Wynn has been a good call spread. If anyone else would like to contribute April ideas it would be welcomed. Surly if we all add a couple of ideas monthly we would all benefit. Thanks for the response Mike. I will check them out! Keep in mind that this is what I am looking to do and not telling you what YOU should do. Trade at your own risk. There is an inexpensive way to screen and filter option spreads that meet the Safer Trader criteria.
First go to http: One for a bull put spread and another for a bear call spread. You can then filter by expiration month and take the raw information, check the delta values, use personal judgement, and go from there. By the way the site is free but you have to register. I have looked at this site.
I have looked at the site. I have gone to the custom screen, but am more confused. Lee, I have a quick question for you. When looking for candidates to trade I will sometimes find that there will NOT be the minimum 0. However the Delta values at this distance is very low like 0. Could you explain the relationship of a very low delta to the premium. Since you have the ability to adjust the trade if it gets close to your Short position, please help me undestand.
In short, can a low Delta trump distance from strike price? Distance is the most important factor contributing to the safety of your position. This is because delta is a mathematical estimate of how likely the universe of investors believes the underlying will move from where it is now given the amount of time remaining.
The tendency of investors to overshoot the mark elation or depression is a well-known attribute of market action. Thanks for the valuable advise. Since I feel uncomfortable in moving my strikes closer to the underlying, I adopted 2 methods to squeeze the 0. Move further out from the expiration. I used to trade days to expiration now I have to do it about days to expiration. I have still yet to try legging into the IC trade as per your mention to see if it will help in achieveing the overall premium target.
NeodX is spot on with his observations of methods of dealing with low volatility periods. If any of you missed that email and want to review it, let Dorrie know info SaferTrader. I am sure she can get a copy to you. Lee, I just finished studying your book. You have given all of the rules necessary to execute your trading strategy.
And you did it with just enough additional information to enable a proper discussion of your rules. I have read about a dozen books on option, and attended many, many hours of classroom instruction. Hey Lee, just read your book and looking forward to trading. I have been paper trading another options system successfully. The other system works but you have the higher probability of adjusting more to stay profitable. I want simple, conservative, and profitable, what I call SCP. Thanks again, and I will keep you posted.
Hi Lee, In looking for candidates that meet criteria, how often should we recheck our list of possibles that have not met criteria of premium presently. Do you think it is sensible to recheck on a daily basis. As time passes and we lose premium, is it reasonable to think that in a day or a few it may increase in premium enough to meet premium criteria? What do you think? Challenging low volatility environment recently. Melt-ups can be difficult for this type of trading.
Must remain disciplined to the entry criteria. No need to get into a bad trade just to be in a trade. Hi Lee, purchased your machine product. What tool do you use to go through your watchlist? My own process is spelled out in the article at http: I also will use my brokerage OptionsXpress screening tool where one can enter a minimum price,a volume constraint, etc. Lee, With the same delta on the short call 0.
It seem that the Call Spread is always further away to the underlying price as compared to the Put Spread. Is this a concern or should I adjust further to maintain an almost equidistant? A credit spread that is equidistant from the underlying in terms of delta might superficially seem to be ideal.
If that is indeed the case, it is not likely that you will be able to meet the percentage distance-from-the-underlying, within the entry requirement for minimum premium.
After all, what good is delta equidistance if the premium on the spreads at the right distance away are too paltry to justify even minimal market risk? What normally happens — at least with my trades — is that I am first able to enter the bull put spread or bear call spread, and then if the market moves sufficiently away from my Strike Price, it may well put the desired opposite leg of the iron condor within reach of all the entry criteria including its delta.
Its significance is most useful at the time you enter the position. But money management — more so than the accompanying delta rise — takes precedence in deciding if it is prudent to exit from a spread going the wrong way.
I put on a bear call spread on the SPY on Oct. These numerous small wins in a short period of time add up to a high ROI if all goes well. Since the 8 expected winners will be relatively small, it is CRITICAL that the 2 expected losers not be so big as to wipe out the gains of the wins and leave us with a net loss. Hence, we have to limit the dollar loss assocciated with the potential losers that inevitably will occur.
So the investor needs to set a risk limit on every trade. Please review pages of the book for a discussion of trade managment. Also, you might want to read the white paper blog: Lee, I consider myself a successful spread trader as I rely on the income trading produces. I agree with your sentiment that there is no consistent success without unwavering discipline to the trading rules proved to be important.
My experience is that I find plenty of monthly candidates for spreads, typically on the PUT side. Like you point out, I always look to maximize my margin but a good fill on the CALL spread to complete the condor is not nearly as common.
I hope your audience has the perseverance to give the methodology in your book a chance, it works. I just read your report http: However I still have a question that will you only do credit spread not iron condor.
I am always on the lookout for an iron condor because of the big margin advantage, but most of the time I turn a credit spread into a condor when the market moves in the direction I want away from my current spread and I get the opportunity to put the other spread on because of that. I usually use contingent stop based on the underlying stock or index price when my stop is based on a violation of a support or resistance level that would occur before my MRA was threatened.
Otherwise, I use a stop on the options themselves that I enter after the market opens each day. Have contacted some friends with very strong math credentials to see if they are able to produce a formula for estimating the price of the underlying has to be in order to trigger a stop on the option spread at a specific option spread value.
Will let you know if I find an answer! Suggest you view each part of the iron condor as separate trades for purposes of risk management. Accordingly, I would set my MRA maximum risk amount independently on each spread. You are correct to be concerned about option order stops being filled on the open before the underlying has actually begun trading, the result being terrible fills. When you do have an OPTIONS stop order active in the market, it should be entered each morning a while after the opening when the options are actually trading as opposed to reflecting dream-world bids and asks.
This cures the problem you face when you leave an option stop order in the market all the time as good-until-cancelled one that could well get hit on the open. Please check out these two blogs:. Lee, I did not receive your book yet, but I have been trading iron condors before, today I put this one on which looks good to me as I do them, but have not yet been profitable.
What would you do differently iaw your system? What am I doing wrong, or does this one look good? But, if you are willing to assume that as an actual risk on the trade, there is a problem. You will find the book is insistent that you have a MRA maximum risk amount for the trade that, if reached, you would take action by exiting the position with a relatively small loss, roll into a more distant spread, etc.
Any ideas how to get out of this?? This, and the wide-spread, i. As my SPY question, how to choose a good strike for credit spread? SPY has 1 dollar for each strike not 5. How to find a good credit premium? Another question, recently, the market is chappy. What should we do to do for monthly income? While we can going to do iron condor should we need to define the market trend to do Bear Call or Bull put Spread or just use the entry criteria to do iron condor. As you may know guess market is direction is not easy.
Of course, since sometimes the market may move a long way in one direction, we also have risk management techniques — including just exiting from the spread entirely — if our maximum risk tolerance maximum risk amount is reached by the market making a very large, continuous move.
Regarding doing just the bear call spread or just the bull put spread. Many invesors — myself included — will establish one of those positions when the market appears to be reaching an overbought or oversold state, or when the price of the underlying is nearing a chart support or resistance level.
Later, if the market moves in the desired direction away from that spread, we can look for a similar situation in the other direction and then add the other spread to complete the Iron Condor. Both spreads should, of course, meet the entry crieteria at the time you establish them. It will be hard to find a good premium. What should I do for this? Hi, New member and just ordered the book. I opened the recommended OptionXpress until my book arrives. Any advice and has your life improved with the safe strategies?
I am trying to look for a tool that can help serach for the candidates. Just plug in parameters… Anyone? How about Push Button Option Writer? I bought their software a long time ago. I dont recall if it can be totally programmed. Hi Stephen, I agree with you that the technology to help in searching for options which fit entry criteria is out there, but is it applied to what we need for a search, and if so how do we access it.
Have you had any recent experience with the two possibilities you mentioned in your response. It is a list of recently placed options. I go through it and identify possibilities, and then use my own screening process.
I have found a few possibilities that I would not have found otherwise. Lee mentioned the screens on Options Xpress. I have not found them to be much help. I appreciate any ideas you have, and would like to communicate with you to see if we can combine our experience and come up with something worthwhile. Thanks for your sharing in the forum. I would like to hear from Eric if possible.
I can be contacted at smbeanuniversal aol. Do you recommend trading weekly credit spread or iron-condor? Also,if you are going to update your book, how about dealing with the criteria for weeklies, since they will obviously be different? Lee, have you ever thought about updating your book?. Looks like you wrote the book under different market conditions with more volatility. Main rules that need to be changed are the minimum premium and or the the time till expiration.
Jeff, the entry criteria are based on studying many years of data that include both high and low volatility periods. We are subjecting our option to greater risk because of the additional time available for movement.
I have also traed the SPX, as well as AAPL weeklies, and with the big up and down action this week not for nervous stomachs am ending a very profitable week. My July monthly RUT Call spread, however, is close to my sold strike, and will probably have to be rolled to avoid more trouble.
I have been trading the weekly SPX options for a few months now. No losers so far and fast action. Like trading options on Expiration week, every week….. Hi Jim…I am very interested in the weeklys. Please Contact me and we can discuss this and exchange information. I have been trading index credit spreads for a long time. Take advantage of the fear and euphoria of the other traders.
There is also a nice Tax break on Index options. There does not seem to be much traffic on this Blog. Is it just that new or is everyone bashful????? Response to Jim V: This is a great opportunity for those of us who use MIM. If we would use it on a regular basis to discuss what we have found in out searches for options meeting entry criteria, it could benefit all of us. I am sure others have found other possibilities. How about putting them up on this site regularly, and we will all benefit from each others research.
We are such a small group that it will have no negative effect on the calculations used to determine out premiums. I am not sure we need luck but instead more discipline and ideas.. I could not agree more.
Speaking of this hsve you found any good trades for March you are working on that meet the critera? Any ideas on how to cut down my search time? Also, you can always look out to the month following the upcoming expiration month.
But premium requirement on SPY and other indices is lower than that of an individual stock, and of course can be lower still when you get within 2 weeks of expiration.
You can also go out one month further than the next expiry which will offer more premium since your position lasts longer. This makes me uneasy since some of these stock can move points in a days time. Available both in physical book and e-book versions.
Physical book version also a top seller at Amazon. Dec, at Lee Finberg Reply John Sullivan Reply Nov, at 2: Nov, at Oct, at Gary, I indeed will sometimes take profits early on a spread, particularly if I want to free up margin for another conforming trade opportunity. Sep, at Sep, at 2: Gary, The 0 quote is a reflection of the fact that there is little to no interest in that strike price option at that time.
Sincerely, Dorrie Customer Service Manager http: Sep, at 8: Hi Lee — thanks so much. Sep, at 1: Andrew Greenberg Reply Jul, at Sep, at 4: Their answers reflect the trading experiences of more than ten thousand futures traders. You may recognize some of your own strengths and weaknesses. To help you evaluate your potential earnings and potential profit versus the potential risk of loss in commodities futures trading, you need an experienced commodity futures trading broker and Cannon Trading is one of the best discount commodity brokers.
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